Robots, the sustainable industry and the people

But Johan Stahre, Professor of Production Systems at Chalmers University of Technology, thinks the concerns are exaggerated.

– “Automation is an enabler, not least in times when young people are far fewer than older people in the West and East Asia,” he says.

According to Johan Stahre, something that is not talked about so much is that the demographics look a bit bleak in Europe. But also, in countries like China and the US. Not to mention Japan.

– I don’t think everyone has really understood how few people in the younger generation are. In Stockholm and Gothenburg, we now have just over half as many 20- to 25-year-olds as 30- to 35-year-olds. There have never been so few children born as now,” he says.

‘Industry can’t get hold of people, and the same goes for healthcare. Meanwhile, one of the big hamburger chains, with a predominantly young workforce, has announced that it will employ 10 000 people in Sweden.

– ‘I can only say … good luck,’ says Johan Stahre.

The plastic human brain and its ability to handle both difficult decisions, and our physical limbs with their fine motor precision, are indispensable for managing things in industry.

– This will be the case for the foreseeable future,” he says.

And even though robots are on the rise, they are still quite rare. In a country like Sweden, which still has a strong engineering culture, there are fewer than 300 robots per 10 000 employees. The global average is around 120 robots per 10 000.

Robots and automation are strongly linked to the concept of Industry 4.0. The term refers to the fact that after previous technological leaps such as the steam engine, electricity and computers, we have taken another step. To an era where modern machines have become connected to computers and to the internet – which has provided endless opportunities to both control and monitor the machines, as well as to collect data and perform analysis.

– I have German colleagues who actually coined the term Industry 4.0. For them, it was mostly to collect and describe something that already existed, an idea to highlight how good European industry is. They felt that we had been left behind by the US and China and wanted to position ourselves. Then they were quite surprised that the concept stuck as it did,” he says.

Now, instead, there is talk of an Industry 5.0.

– “We have added a layer of more human-centered values, where we start from the human ability to create a functioning future.

It is about sustainability, including from a climate perspective, but also about society being resilient and able to cope with disruptions such as pandemics and geopolitical unrest – such as the war in Ukraine. Supply chains must be secured, as well as the availability of raw materials. Another part of Industry 5.0 is to center the industry around human needs and opportunities, which fits well when there are fewer of us in the labor market. Simply put, an industry that is both climate and socially sustainable, even if Johan Stahre is not fond of the term sustainability.

– “No, it implies that we should have something that works for a while, until it breaks. I think sustainable is better,” he says.

Foto: Lenny Kuhne, Unsplash

With the rise of automation and AI … there is a fear that machines will not just take over jobs. Some predict that we may eventually reach a level where they start to think for themselves and become aware of human shortcomings: impulsive and driven, aggressive and belligerent, etc. There have been warnings of a scenario where the machines get fed up and simply rationalize us away.

But Virginia Dignum, Professor of Responsible Artificial Intelligence at Umeå University, sees little reason for concern.

– ‘No, those are fantasies,’ she says.

Like Johan Stahre, she points out that automation is nothing new, and that it has existed to some extent since the industrial revolution.

– ‘Human activities, and what is required of us, are a changing matter. Jobs today do not look like they did in our grandparents’ time, and they continue to transform. It is important to be aware of that,” she says.

“New skills will always be needed, and it is crucial that we never stop training ourselves to do new things.

– But machines taking over things that are dangerous or boring is a good thing.

One area where there is a lot of talk about AI is self-driving cars. Here, Virginia Dignum believes that many people are too optimistic.

– Sure, they already exist to some extent. But the idea that they would be able to get around on their own in complicated city traffic … people keep saying it will happen in three years. But it will take a long time.

So, what makes the idea of thinking computers taking over so incredible? According to Virginia Dignum, they are simply not designed that way. Basically, it’s just a long chain of on and off buttons, ones or zeros. Kind of like a self-playing piano.

– We know they can’t develop their own intellect, it’s impossible. There are limits to what can be computerized.

And even if something like that were to appear in the future, it would still be something that would be designed by people.

– Of course, we need to think about what we want the machines to do and take responsibility for what we develop.

But computers with their own soul …

– … just science fiction,” says Virginia Dignum.